Season 1 Episode 4

Ann and Shelly discuss their plans for their gardens, honoring the earth, and come to the realization that they might actually be green witches.

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GOML - Episode 4 -20250125

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, it is January 2025, and this is podcast four of Get Off My Lawn. I'm Ann Reber. And I'm Shelley Pardis. Thanks for joining us.

So it's January here in Montana, and of course that means it's cold and it's dark. Yeah, and, We've talked a lot in our past podcasts about how much we like to be outside. So, not my favorite time of year. I don't know about you, Anne. No. , so, here in Montana, there's a lot of outdoor activities.

You know, skiing and snowboarding and stuff like that, and that's not me. I prefer warm outside, so yeah, I, can be outside, but I just don't want to , yeah, I mean, I feel like I have to be inside, but the reality is you're right, no, we don't have to be, I really don't want to be outside when it's cold out either, so yeah,. I guess, to me, it's just really kind of hard though. It's dark, all the time, I mean, [00:01:00] except for during the day, you know, it's dark in the morning, it's dark at night, it's kind of depressing, it's really easy for me to get distracted and lose focus, , which is one of the things that when I can go outside and sit outside in my garden, 

it helps me to feel better. So, I mean, how do you, how do you cope with that? Well, um, so January, a lot of seed companies send out their catalogs. So I spend time paging through the seed catalogs, dreaming about planting the garden or planning the gardens even. So that helps a little bit.

But,, yeah, , it's a challenge. Like you said, it's really hard to focus because I just feel kind of Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm Well, unfortunately. Like no, like no direction. Yeah. What are we supposed to do? Yeah. So, yeah, planning, planning helps. Definitely helps. Yeah. I mean, um, I [00:02:00] don't get catalogs of seeds though.

I feel like I'm missing, this really important publication. , I'm gonna have to get on that mailing list. I seem to get a lot of other junk mail, but why don't I get the junk mail that I want? Well, u, yeah, I think once you get on their mailing list Suddenly everybody starts sending you their catalogs, but Oh, they probably share our names.

Yes. Sure. So, as you, as we plan our gardens, what, , do you take into consideration? Well, one thing, I want to be able to be out there. Mm hmm. And be able to experience and enjoy it. And be, I guess, be a part of it. Yeah. As opposed to just looking. Like, you know, sometimes there's gardens where you're just kind of, it's ornamental.

Mm hmm. And you're just kind of looking at them. So I really like to have that connection to the garden, in particular. So what, as you're planning your garden, what are your goals? What are my goals for planning my garden? Well, for one thing, I really like the [00:03:00] idea of being able to grow our own food.

And know, where that food is coming from. I think that that is, a big reason for that. I'm pretty immature in my garden. Right now, so I don't really have a lot of vegetables and all of that, but, that's the ultimate goal, right? So trying to get some, food in there. Just the different food that you can get at the grocery stores is just not as good.

Right. And you can't always count on, even at farmer's markets. And things that are said to be organic and all of that, well, they're probably better. You can't always count that that's really the case. So just knowing where that food comes from is really important to me. And the fact that you grew it. Yeah.

That makes me proud when I can eat my own carrots and potatoes and stuff. So yeah, we're still working through last year's potatoes. We don't have really good luck with some types of vegetables. Beans, for some reason, we just cannot get to grow. They'll just sit there in a small [00:04:00] state and never produce anything.

But, I'm pretty sure this year we're going to be growing mostly root vegetables. Carrots, beets, radishes, onions. Except peas. We had good luck with peas. So we'll, we'll try peas again this year. So what we got to do as soon as it thaws, we can plant our potatoes in March. Which is exciting.

That is exciting. I didn't realize we could do it that early. Yeah. That, that's kind of fun because, , I have a short attention span, so it'd be nice to be able to get busy with some of that. Yeah. So that means we got to prep our beds. , I compost, so what we do, like, when we use eggs, we'll, let , the eggshells dry out, grind them up, and then, then we'll just put them in the beds, you know, work that into the soil.

 We compost all of our food except, like, meat, we don't do that. So that,, we all put into the soil and we'll get, we've been doing that throughout the, the winter. Just putting it on top of the bed. So as soon as the [00:05:00] soil, we can start working at, we'll mix that in, which is exciting because, last year when I was digging up my potatoes, I actually found worms.

Oh, nice. I know. That's a good sign. Yes. That's means my, you know, you have worms too, right? You're, I. do and actually I, I have some new worm, farms, it's called worm farms that will go into the earth because right now the worms, you kind of have to try to really protect them because when it gets super cold, like it does here, they can't really survive that unless you bring them inside , or do something with them, you know.

to keep them warmer. So, , yeah, they're great little composters, those worms. Yeah. Yeah. They, they're great, but these, this will actually be able to put them into the earth and then you can put your, you put your worms in there and they can kind of. squirm around , under the ground.

 When we get some, raised beds, [00:06:00] I'll put one of them in, in kind of like the main. Yeah. Raised bed is my plan. Just to see how that goes, but the other one I'm going to just actually put right in the middle of the strawberry patch . I got to figure out how they work a little bit.

Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah. We have 20 raised beds right now, we haven't really decided if I want to add more. , but that just shows that, you know, how important it is to care for the soil and by, you know, making sure you have worms because worms are a sign that your soil is healthy. Yeah. And, composting and it's just nice because you're not putting chemicals in your food.

Yeah. You're creating real natural food, organic. You know, we went through , this remodel and , the whole yard was completely stripped of any, anything, right? So, we're really trying to rebuild just the general soil too, so one of the things that we're doing is planting clover,, instead of grass, in all of our spaces.

We live on a hillside a little bit too, so that it's hard to [00:07:00] mow, so planting clover is a big part of what we're doing right now, just to build The, the quality of the soil because it's healthier. Yeah. And, uh. Fixes nitrogen. Fixes nitrogen. And as part of kind of what my goal for my garden is, I don't want to, I don't want to strip the earth of things that would naturally be occurring and it would help those plants that are, you know, naturally there.

I don't want to take away from that. either. Right, right. So, yeah, that's, that's real important. So, , just taking into consideration all of that. So what plants are you planning to plant? I definitely will , get my herb garden going. That was pretty successful last year. We have some, work that we need to do with our water line this spring and everything.

So, I'm not sure how much vegetables we'll get going. But I did get a chance [00:08:00] to put in some, garlic and onions. And I want to definitely go to some root vegetables. This spring, , but really most anything I plant is going to become deer food at this point, so I probably won't go too crazy.

However, one thing that I've gotten a little excited about in the last week is I'm starting to figure out how I'm going to set up my little seedling,, area. I have a grow light. I think I actually bought that from you. A grow light and some shelving that I bought to,, set up to start growing some plants.

Which, like I said, will ultimately just end up being deer food. That still makes me happy. How about you? What are you, what are you planning to grow? Oh, , so, right now, vegetable, as far as vegetable wise, mostly root vegetables, because those, that's a known entity, it's tried and true for us. Um, and then, we've also been looking at flowers, because we had zinnias one year, and they're really pretty, [00:09:00] and they come in late.

So they're a late blooming flower that, after most of the plants have bloomed, there's not much left over for bees. So it's really important that, or at least to us, that we have flowers that come in. later in the season, so bees have some stuff too. Rabbit brush is also a really good one because that blooms late, and I see you guys have it around here quite a bit.

And then we're also going to do some sunflowers. Yeah, that's one thing that I want to try to do too. If I can, I didn't have any luck with that at all last year. Deer? Yes. So I'm not sure what the solution is going to be, but we're going to try. Yes, yes, I love sunflowers, and we're also gonna Because we have our big fences up finally, we're gonna, we have to put some sort of windbreak on the inside.

So, we're talking about elderberries, at least for the food plot. Um, every time we've [00:10:00] tried elderberries in the past, the deer have, pretty much nuked them. So, now we're gonna give it a real shot,, see if it works. And, , we're also doing hackberry. So, I mean, we've got a lot of exciting stuff that, it just gets me excited just, you know, thinking about it.

But we still have a couple of months. What's the new stuff that you're trying? You mentioned the hackberry, that's new, right? Yeah, , so the hackberry, we're going to give that a shot. , we're also going to be planting, well, we're going to try caragana. , I've heard, I've never been a fan of it, but it's supposed to be really good for as far as windbreak.

Okay. So we're going to do that. , we're also going to try and get some aspens growing up closer to the house because, you know, we like aspens, too. So, yeah, so those are, , exciting things we are actually planning on. , , there's stuff I wish we could do, but we just don't have the It's not [00:11:00] the right climate.

Or the length of the growing season is the other thing. Because I've seen things that, oh, maybe I could grow it, but by the time it matures, the season's over, or whatever, and it just can't survive, or it can't get stabilized, I guess. So What would be the thing That you wish you could plant. Wisteria looks absolutely amazing. And I would love to be able to grow that, but it's not going to thrive in this climate. Yeah. We'd have it one season and then winter comes along and that's it. We've tried stuff like honey locusts, which I guess is really good for bees, but It's, it's, again, the winter, it just can't survive the winters here.

, there's this one tree that I would kind of like, but it is, I'm gonna say Zone 3B, which we are borderline, it's called, , Hop Hornbeam. It's just the name that intrigues [00:12:00] me. Yeah. I'm not going to say it's a great looking tree, but it's got these catkins that look like hops. Uh huh. So, and it's actually an ironwood, so it's a really hard wood.

So the deer couldn't really eat it very well, once it matures. Right. The problem is we have bucks that love to rub their antlers on the trees and strip bark. We've had, they've actually gotten to a couple of our cottonwoods, which is just frustrating as hell. Because the cottonwoods are like the biggest trees we have on our property right now.

Because we want them to be able to stay there. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because most of the things that we plant when it comes to trees and bushes and stuff are not going to be something that we reap the benefit of. No. In all reality. Not us old ladies. No. Not us. Not us crabby old ladies. Uh huh. , one thing that, oh, did you order anything from the state nursery this year?

Yes, we ordered, , some pines and hackberries [00:13:00] and pirivanna, and they're actually offering seeds. Mm hmm. So we bought some seeds just to try. Did you have any luck in, in getting what you wanted? , so I went out the same day. I did, now I will say I wasn't out there first thing in the morning. Yeah. But I went out the same day, and , almost all of it was all sold out already.

But you know, we logged in as soon as the portal opened. It was already all sold out except for a few things. Yeah, so I don't know what happened or Why everything was gone immediately. Yeah, so I ordered some ponderosa pines, which you know I have a ton of ponderosa pines around my house. And I love them.

But when we did the remodel, they had to take some out. Which is sad. I didn't want to see that happen. And there's just a few that ended up getting damaged. And I'm not sure that they're going to survive. So, I ordered nine. Which is a lot. I might share some with the With the [00:14:00] forest, but, but, um, you know, I, I'm kind of excited about that, but I did get some seeds too.

I got some of the, they had some coneflower seeds and, , what was the other one? What was that purple flower? Yeah, it was a purple flower. I don't know, yeah. I got that, some of those too. Okay, yeah. So, same, same thing. But, um, yeah, so, uh, I've always kind of wanted to grow citrus. Like whenever I go to California or, Florida and stay there and sometimes they'll have citrus fruits, I always think that would be kind of fun, but that's obviously never gonna happen.

Not here. Right. Not gonna happen here, but, oh well. So, , a few weeks back, you recommended a couple of books to me, , just going way back, , when we did our last podcast, it was Halloween, we started talking about witches. Mm hmm. And when we kind of went down a little rabbit hole, that happens a lot with Shelly.

, we went down a little rabbit hole, started talking about witches a little bit, and then we decided, hey, you know what? This is a topic that could be a podcast [00:15:00] in and of itself, so we should kind of wrap that up. So, we'd been thinking about witches and I went down this, thought process of, you know, , I like magic, growing up, I liked magic.

My, when my, when I was a young adult, my kids, , loved Harry Potter. It was all during that whole time when those books were being released and the movies and all of that. And, and, and there's something just really kind of fun about, about magic in that sense. But what I've noticed is like the last 10 or 15 years of my life, whenever I start thinking about witches, for some reason, I go more towards this whole idea of, Women who have been persecuted for different ideas or challenging authority and traditionally just not being respected for that.

And that's what I think of when I think of witches a little bit more. But then you shared [00:16:00] some books with me and I'd like, maybe you could tell me how you got there with this whole concept of the green witch. Okay, so like you, as a young girl, I was very intrigued by witches. Um I really wanted to be one, because I thought that would be so amazing to be able to cast spells and stuff like that.

And even in elementary school, there was a book that I had checked out for months on end because I just kept reading it over and over again. It was called something like Spells, Sorcery, and Secrets or something like that. And it was just To me, it was amazing. And then, , as I grew up,, Organized religion was how I always struggled, especially for me, because there were so many unanswered questions.

I like, I mean, I like mystery, but I also like to be able to Understand. And that's why I guess I don't have faith, because faith required [00:17:00] belief without understanding. You know, it just is. Something like that. So, um, but back to , the whole witch topic. When we were talking about it last Halloween,, Marvel had a television series called Agatha All Along.

And what I really liked about it is a lot of the actresses Were our age, you know, they're older women portrayed as powerful, I mean, powerful witches. And then there was,, one of the witches was a green witch, which I'm like, oh, this is, that's kind of cool. So, you know, I did some Googling and, and it was really not what I was expecting.

And so. I bought a book off of Amazon called The Green Witch. And so I started reading it and I'm like, Wow. Cause the philosophy [00:18:00] presented in the book was like, I've been practicing that pretty much all my life. Without realizing that it was actually something. You know,, the green witch. is pretty much an environmental steward.

She doesn't, you know, like, believe in the deity, but she's all about the nature, which, you know, the gardening, the plants, protecting the land, working with the land, honoring the land. So, that got me excited, and so I thought, oh, this is cool, so I'll just, I'll share the book with you to see what you think.

So, what did you think? Yeah, so, interestingly enough, kind of the same experience. So growing up, you know,, some of my fondest memories with my dad, he's really the person that probably I would say influenced me to be interested in gardening and, the outdoors, to that [00:19:00] degree.

When we're talking about being outside and in nature. And,, I just have these really great memories of being outside, , with the plants, and even sitting down and like talking to the strawberry plants as a little. Like toddler or something, you know and and picking strawberries or carrots or whatever that might be and So it's and then I spent a lot of my adulthood not having the ability to do that So when we did this model, this has really been something that I really want to do and that whole feeling that connection to me is about the closest to a religious experience that I have.

Because I, same way, you know, it's not that I have anything against religions or anything like that, but, there's just always something that disappoints me. Yeah. And, and so, you know, , when you shared that book with me, and I'm reading that, and I'm thinking yeah, you know, I mean, sure, there's a whole magical component to [00:20:00] that,, and the whole witchcraft part of that, but there's so much of it that makes sense, you know, that connection to nature.

Yeah. The herbalism or, , growing plants for healing, or for, in their cases, maybe spells or whatever, but, but plants. Yeah. Honoring the earth, working with natural energies, and respecting living things. That's all about us. Yes. And I was like, yeah, Ann said this is her people. And I'm like, it's my people too.

Yeah. And I thought that, it's just really cool,, the concept. Whether you think of it as a, a craft, you know, or just kind of a core belief system. I'm like, man, that really makes a lot of sense to me. Those are the things that are important to me. Yeah. And, and so, yeah, I thought it was, it was really cool

 And so then you recommended , another set of books. I've only started reading the first one, and I've been listening to [00:21:00] them, , they're Terry Pratchett's, Weird Sisters, and there's a bigger name to that, but anyway, really fun.

I'm recommending it right now, so, there you go. , what I think is really fun about it, and this whole concept of the Green Witch, is how humanized it is. They are. They're humans. They're powerful. They have powers. You know, it's a fantasy book, right? So they have power, , but the power is in their humanity and their connection to the earth and the, um, The world around them.

Right, right. I mean, and that's exactly like I said. You know, what we've been doing this entire time, unknowingly, you know, taking care of our soil by composting, you know, worms, no chemicals, planting plants, not just Just for harvest, but just for us, but also for the bees and the [00:22:00] birds and the bats and the damn deer.

And the deer. And the bunnies. And the deer. Yes. And the deer. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Uh, I, I have, yeah, I struggle with that. portion of philosophy because the deer are just so destructive. Oh, but they're fun, too. They're pretty, but, yeah, they're destructive. Especially when you pay a couple hundred bucks for a tree, and they destroy it.

They probably don't honor the earth as much as they should. Maybe we need to give them some lessons. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, so like, and there's no deity in this whole, there's no, like, this all powerful being that is telling you what's wrong or what you can and can't do. Or disapproves. It's, it's about collaborating with other creatures or the, really, yeah, so, part of the Weird Sisters.

This is something I just. Not too long ago read was the whole concept that [00:23:00] the earth, not, not just the living animals, but the earth and the trees and the plants, they're also living. Yeah, they are, you know, and treating them as such, right? Right. Not just as something that is there for your purpose. for your benefit, but also as something that we need to share the world with.

Right. And you know, just like even if you're out and you see a plant, don't take it. Leave it alone. Let it do its thing. Or if you are interested, maybe take a little of it, not, you know, just take a portion and then leave the rest. Yeah. So not taking all of the earth, not taking, not planting. Although you may have to reel me in once I actually can plant things, but not planting, , for yourself 100 percent of the space [00:24:00] that you have, leaving some of it to itself on, on its own.

Yeah, we have left a portion of our property untouched, deliberately. Right. And that's, that's important. And , the side benefit of not taking everything, also, when there's plants out there, not picking all the flowers, is that then they re, they reseed, reseed and repopulate, yeah, in a lot of ways. Or, if they don't, then they,, add to the, to the better quality of the soil.

Right. Right. If you treat it right. Well, like you, planting clover. Because a clover is hugely beneficial. It's Lawns irritate me because all they do is take water. They don't provide anything back. Yeah, they're green. Big deal. Right. But clover, it blooms. Bees love it. Yeah. It provides, , nutrition back into the soil.

, it prevents [00:25:00] erosion. Clover is hugely beneficial, but nobody really plants it anymore. Which is not too bad. I feel like there's a little bit of a , movement, maybe, to start doing more beneficial planting. , I think thyme is another one, right? Creeping thyme, have you heard about that? That, that, maybe not as good as clover.

I don't know, I don't know what the difference is. But legumes in general, right? So planting legumes is, is a good, uh, cross, uh, right? Like, like, what do you call that? Um, planting those types of things along with other things. What do you call that? Oh, God. Something crops. Oh, I'm gonna have to Okay, never mind.

I'm struggling with that one because I know what you're talking about, but the term is, uh, escaping me right at this point. But I've, but honestly, and you may in this podcast hear a little bit of extra noise in the background because my granddaughter is upstairs running around. You know, quite honestly, I want to [00:26:00] have, I want there to be, uh, a planet that she can enjoy when she grows up, you know, and , have the things that are important to me also be important to her, and, and I know that my daughter and her family , they have similar thoughts as far as the importance of nature, their connection to nature and being outside.

They actually don't mind being outside in this freaking cold. Well, that's fine. They can go spend as much time skiing and sledding and all of that that they want. I'll just curl up by the fire with a book. so let's circle back to the Green witch idea. Mm-hmm . So the thing that, we connect to. In reading all the books that we've had and, everything like that, the core beliefs of the Green Witch are connection to nature, herbalism and plants.

honoring the earth, working with natural energies, like the whole kind of earth, wind, [00:27:00] fire, water. , and respect for living things, which you and I have talked about that. Depends on the living thing, , those are those , five core beliefs where I think we can all, we can really wrap our heads around, right?

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the whole philosophy of the Green Witch. The Green Witch believes in living sustainably and minimizing their impact on the earth. So that, you know, of course we've talked about composting, using eco friendly products, , sustainable agriculture, , the Green Witch also feels a strong responsibility to protect the natural world.

So, um, like you said, you want something to be there for your granddaughter. And, I agree. I think, um, Especially in this day and age, I'm very concerned with environmentalism, you know, and [00:28:00] I just can't wrap my head around like, okay, so we have this river called the Smith River. It's pristine. And there's a mining company that wants to mine copper close to the river.

And it's like, why? Why cannot, why can we not have nice things? Well, and, why can't we learn from past experiences, right? Right. So, what, who, who is it that said, history doesn't repeat itself, but it certainly rhymes? Yeah. Mark Twain. Okay. Yeah, I, I mean, really, yeah. So, , one of the most important things.

To sustain life is our water. Yeah, right, and there's so few If we go global even outside of the United States, we're really actually very fortunate in the United States in a lot of ways But there are a lot of places that really struggle to have clean good clean [00:29:00] water and it's so important that Our greed gets in the way of It just makes me mad.

It does. I mean, our greed for other things or other comforts gets in the way. There's other things we could do. Oh, absolutely. I don't know. Yeah, that makes me mad. So, okay. Yes. Anyway. We are, you know, green witches. We care about the world around us and we want it to be, we want to be able to share it.

That's it. Well, we want to honor it, and we want to respect it. It doesn't mean that we won't ever use any part of the earth. Right. We're part of it as well. But, we want to honor it and be respectful so that it can continue. Right. Right. And continue in a way that's healthy. Right. Yes, I have a whole other podcast, so we [00:30:00] can talk about that too, we can talk about a whole thing.

 Another, philosophy that I found intriguing, of course, was no deities. So you're not putting something on a pedestal. You're not putting something above you. Everything is of the world. There's no unknowables. Right. Right. Right. At least. Yeah, I agree, and then I think even with the weird sisters.

There might be a little bit of a hierarchy there because of, but it's more about experience and sharing wisdom than it is about rules and regulations and, , what is right and wrong. I mean, right and wrong, I think it's important for us to understand that, but that whole kind of concept that there's this floating, deity up in the sky.

Yeah. That's approving. That rules over us as a moral judgment. I mean, I don't believe that. I think that if there is some type of deity or god, [00:31:00] they are much more connected to the earth than that. Right. That's very separate. Well, okay, so if the earth was created by God, and here we are, polluting it, messing it up, would God really love us for that?

I mean, he created a paradise for us, right? If this is what you believe. And yet Well, I mean, you know, that all gets into the whole religious thing. This thing, the idea is that God gave us free will to do with as we want, but at some point, if I was him, or her, , or them, um, I would, I'd be a little bit pissed off at the, at the people, the humans of Earth, and how we've treated our planet.

, I also kind of question that. , so this is going back to the green witch philosophy, [00:32:00] which is they don't worship. a deity. That's not part of that philosophy. 

 This is interesting. Greenwitch is seeing the Earth as a living being full of energy. energy and magic in there. And then really just striving to live in harmony with that and the cycles of that. So, when we talk about the winter time, honoring the fact that there's probably, there's a reason that we can't be out digging in the earth right now.

The earth needs a chance to rest. And recoup from it's all the work and energy that it puts into the growing season, right? Yeah, yeah. Everything needs a rest. There's a time. I'm kind of getting off track here, but anyway, . Uh huh. So. One of my, one of my heroes, Granny Weatherwax, from the Weird [00:33:00] Sisters Terry Pratchett book series.

Yeah. She's like, I don't hold with paddling with the occult, said Granny firmly. Once you start paddling with the occult, you start believing in spirits. And when you start believing in spirits, you start believing in demons. And then before you know where you are, you're believing in gods. And then you're in trouble.

 But all of them things exist, says Nanny Og. There's no call to go around believing them. It only encourages them. That's right, so it's the whole idea of putting them on a pedestal. I really liked that when you said earlier. So, even if they do exist, and even if we do believe that they exist, by putting that on a pedestal, it really just creates A hierarchy.

It creates this hierarchy that, that where, that's not the one. That's not the one I wanted to look at. Okay. We're kind of spiraling. We're spiraling now. So back to Green Witch Philosophy. No. Well, celebrate [00:34:00] the seasons. Celebration of the Seasons, yeah, , so while they don't have a specific deity or anything like that, I think in their idea of honoring the earth, that whole kind of celebration of the seasons is, is a big part of that.

 Yeah. 

, With that in mind, um, maybe we're not crabby old ladies. Maybe we're just wise women. Maybe. Or, maybe we're green witches? Yeah. I like it. I like it. Okay. Alright, we'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.